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plagueis

@Annatar: Hey...you know what's cool on PC? --Amiga classic cracktro remakes, and some of 'em are done in C too!!!!!
 
Intros?...I'm just here for the girls!

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# plagueis : If that's your idea of demo coding go for it. I have already made my motivations clear. What you're describing sounds like something we should call an "App" rather than a demo.
Yeah, maybe, yeah. Let's just say that over the years, I ended up in the system engineering camp, and therein realized that as challenging as demo coding can be, designing scalable architectures is even more so, especially when one is trying to break new ground, and must write lots of software from scratch because it has never been done before. Architecting systems is, in my experience, far more complex than writing demos.

I did not have this realization until I began a deep years-long study of work done by Kernighan, Aho, Ritchie, Thompson, and the rest of the crew at Bell Labs. They, just like us, got their start on assembler, but unlike us, had literally no software to fall back on -- they had to write and design everything from scratch, as it was the dawn of modern computing. What is especially fascinating, to me at least, is that the systems they architected are still far more advanced and tight than anything anybody has been able to design since.

Interestingly enough, I have also discovered that the programming principles they came up with while designing, for example simplicity in code "do one thing and do it well", or scalability, or clean interfaces, apply just as well to making intros and demos in assembler.

Once I actually put my Amiga together I plan to test this. Prior to selling my Amiga some twenty years earlier I came up with some of these principles on my own, it should be interesting to see how they hold up writing assembler code in Asm-One with the leverage of UNIX experience and principles...
If you want to act on your ideas you should do exactly that, but make no mistake, it won't be congruent with the old school demo mentality, you'll be walking alone in an avant garde path, which might not be a bad thing...
The first guy through the wall always gets a bloody nose. I might get a bloody nose from it, but I might also bring something fresh to techniques of making demos and intros on the Amiga. One never knows. The type of work all of us here do is old school, who knows what will happen if classic computer science methodologies are applied to it? I think it will be an interesting experiment.
Nobody is saying you or anyone else must do this. We're just exchanging ideas.
I don't think the matter of unsuitability of the PC for traditional (old school) demo productions can simply be distilled to one or two factors. Also, I think you fail to see all the reasons for that aforementioned unsuitability. The main reason high level languages and fast machines are incompatible with traditional demo making is that they allow so much cheating (GHz processors, high level languages where most of the hard code is written by others and described by Kernighan and Richie back in 1969). It's apples and oranges....you can't compare coding on some machine like the spectrum with coding on a quad core windows box....there are just so many issues.
That depends. If you abstract the challenge enough, doing shared memory and thread synchronization has proved just as challenging as finding the optimal method of driving the Spectrum at the speed of his hardware. Technically, the challenges are different. But if one looks at the difficulty and complexity levels, they are au pair.
I am going to try and push the limits and break the precepts because frankly, all of us here have seen the bazillion ways of pushing the hardware shader in the latest demo. One can only do it so many times before it gets old.
But really....there is already a PC demo scene.
I have zero interest in the PC demo scene, mainly because everyone and their brother is doing that. I always wanted to push an OS like Solaris, that has the potential, but never has been pushed because it is too obscure for the mainstream demo coder. I like exotic things, as long as they do not involve cars.
I'm just not seeing the challenge, and if you have a look around, you'll see that the PC demo folks are mostly interested in design not code for the reasons I've already outlined. It took me a few days to get a decent plasma working on the c64. Using the super portable SDL, on my Windows box...I did it in 5 minutes, and it ran faster than the c64 version, even though I did *no* optimization. Game set match.
True. Now try that on Solaris using the realtime scheduling subsystem.
 

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# plagueis : @Annatar: Hey...you know what's cool on PC? --Amiga classic cracktro remakes, and some of 'em are done in C too!!!!!
Yeah. They bring out nostalgia. And they are also a statement of rebellion: those people could have made contemporary designs, but they purposely chose to go back to the roots and show the world how it was done. I like that rebellious streak.
 

plagueis

yep! w3rd.
 
Intros?...I'm just here for the girls!
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