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john maury

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Sorry guys but it's true! :)
 

sHADoW

nothing new :) it sucks since 1992
 

OldSkoolUK

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Gimme Oldskool miggy scene anytime!
 

assa23

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my "Superforce" don't suck and it is a pc demo. assassini :-)
but scene went dead since 1997 when orange and complex aborted.
 

assa23

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my "Superforce" don't suck and it is a pc demo. assassini :-)
but scene went dead since 1997 when orange and complex aborted.
 

[sheep]

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hmm.. as its so easy to bag the pc scene i think ill stick up for it a little :)

What i dont understand is why amiga old skool sceners seem to think the pc is suddenly full of either retards or lamers.

What happened?

You dont think that the pc scene is lead by the same KIND if not the exact SAME people that were leading the amiga scene?

Suddenly after the demise of the amiga everyone in a scene after that is a complete moron?

Well...

Protections are still being cracked.. (far more complex protections i,e starforce)
Intros are still being written.. bigger and better on both counts.. not always of course.. personally im a huge fan of oldskool intros and have coded many myself but to say something is lame either because you dont understand it or your not part of it is a little short sighted.

lastly.. i find it a little funny also that the traffic is always one way.. amiga sceners seem to have a real bee in their bonet about pc scenes.. pc sceners do not concern themselves with running down amiga scenes.. lets just all get along..

im a SCENE lover.. wherever it maybe.. lamers and elite alike are what make a scene.. the stories.. the fights.. and the love..
 

BrainWalker

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good points sheep...but amiga users still need someone to bash around, and now that atari is history, guess whos next ? ;)

and yes, pc suxx not for the intros/demos but for the generation internet that dont care about them. they even prevere releases without them.
do they know the dude who did the keygen they use for their no1 lameness os ? ill doubt that...

put your head up high...youre an amiga scener !!!
 
-= E.vil N.ever D.ies =-

BrainWalker

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good points sheep...but amiga users still need someone to bash around, and now that atari is history, guess whos next ? ;)

and yes, pc suxx not for the intros/demos but for the generation internet that dont care about them. they even prevere releases without them.
do they know the dude who did the keygen they use for their no1 lameness os ? ill doubt that...

put your head up high...youre an amiga scener !!!
 
-= E.vil N.ever D.ies =-

[sheep]

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fine words my friend.. but i feel you are a little misinformed, ill explain.

I started as many, on an atari st.. :)
my scene life didnt start until about 97-98 where i joined fairlight and class, i worked for these groups on and off until the recent bust that took them down.

along the way ive worked with some of the greatest and worst sceners there are.. from the brilliant xor37 to the worlds biggest asshole this side of plutos moons, cypher, who im sure everyone knows.. not in all my years did i ever come across 1 person in the scene that didnt firstly admire.. and secondly respect the HELL out of a good intro.. or an especially hard crack or good trainer for that matter.. these are SCENERS im talking about now.. not the kids who sit and collect warez..

anyways.. this is the part that is confused i think.. a few years later i had the opportunity to code some trainers for the GBA.. i was pretty shocked at how much this scene actually hated the intros.. they even went to the extent of coding tools to remove them.. this in my opinion would be like biting the hand that feeds you and shortly after i decided to not rls anymore.. but ive heard lots of amiga sceners comment on the handheld scene like its attached in some way to the pc scene.. it isnt.. i think even more confusion comes from the fact that the pc obviously runs in such a way that intros can be ignored and not run at all.. personally i would prefer if the groups integrated their intros INTO the game.exe so it couldnt be ignored, many pc sceners in the past have expressed the very same opinion..

but yes.. if you look at the net and the greedy little warez kidz just wanting to get the latest shit then your correct i doubt they care of even understand what goes into it.. but i refuse to beleive these people were suddenly invented on the pc.. im 100% sure that amiga modem trading warez kidz existed and im just as sure that they too cared very little for these intros its just that they had no real choice other than to slam the spacebar to get through them.. its something to think about..

alas today i have no contact with the scene at all.. it seems very dead.. so i guess soon there will be no pc bashing either :( then i guess i will be glad to look back on the days that the amiga sceners COULD bash the pc scene.. we all lose in the end my friend :(

tnx for taking the time to answer though.. much appreciated.
 

WayneK

The problem, in a nutshell, was the internet. Lets take a journey back in time... <fadeout, strange music here> If you were in a group that didn't suck, you were on various 'elite' BBSes - for europeans, this meant you had to have some way of making free calls (ATT, boxing, etc). This led to it being far harder for "non-sceners" to have any contact with the real scene, and was a barrier to entry for most "lamers". Games took quite some time to trickle down from the elite boards to the more lame boards, and eventually by post to local computer clubs/friends etc.

Fast-forward to today <music etc!> - the internet makes it possible for any muppet with broadband to get his hands on every release for every platform, within 30minutes of it being released. From 0day FTP to newsgroups/p2p/other FTP, is such a short period of time there is almost no distinction... and due to the plethora of forums where any moron can comment on the releases (nforce, etc.), it seems to outsiders that the pc scene is populated exclusively by complete fucktards.

But underneath it all, the same sceners exist... the same suppliers risking a lot to get the originals before others, the same crackers struggling with complex protections (and these days, most pc games are FAR more complex than almost any Amiga title ever was) - the same private conferences between groupmembers. It's just harder to see because of all the "noise" created by the influx of morons the internet has allowed to access 'the scene' in _some_ way! Also the risk of being busted has increased so much, the friendly banter/personalities you see in old Amiga scrollers has become a thing of the past in today's scene, which also makes it look worse than it is to outsiders.

Anyway, that's my take on it... sure it was fascinating to read my ramblings. My fingers hurt.
 

[sheep]

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nice one wayney ;) well put.. msg me again on irc , i missed u last time :(
 

Enzymer

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Exactly WayneK, but there is more to it, than just what you mention above. Maybe your fingers made your comment a little less text centralized about the subject.

Anyway, i doubt the scene can be that bad these days, why would people stick around, hopefully not for the free po.. ehh warez. What i think is wrong with todays scene, is that people are hiding, even if you're a part of the innercircle, then you still don't know the nicks on who is doing what these days. Today you only see a "group" name, no supplier, cracker, packager and so on nicks. It's hard to see who you're competing with, besides the group name. I think it's a strong factor to get motivated to beat that "supplier" to beat that "cracker" in his work and also these days, you don't hear "i wanna be like xxxxx" I personnally know that motivated me.

I know we wont get nicks in the nfos back, but i would like to see more cracktros, cool trainer menu's, not just a window with a F button to press in the background.

PC scene has been with lots of cracktros, but as the nicks started to vanish, then the cracktros dissapeared too. Also i think the quality of cracktros these days is way below average, logos look the same, most do, it's like artists have the same guide to follow, when they're creating their work. The "real" pixel days seems over, a shame if you ask me. Not many logos can compete with logos, that orginally was created 10-15 years back, what happened?

I could ramble for hours and hours, but i better stop, before my finger hurts, i seriously don't want WayneKerr fingers ;)
 

mr.spiv

I have my own theory as well :dozingoff A lot changed when 'fast' communication came easier and was not the privilege of small number of people. Originally many groups were local even geographically so there was more between group members than just nerding stuff. Also when the cracking & demo scenes started to really separate more and more demo releases were targetted just to parties.. good demo releases between parties came more scarse. Imho this lowered the catchines of the scene where it at the same time it really incresed the quality of releases.

Coming back to communication. Once the actively participating community increased even so called 'local lamers' were not anymore just the receiving party of the already old stuff -- they got their voice heard.. easily.. without too much cost & effort. Also everyone was now able to get information easier. It was no use trying to protect your l337 vector routine like virginity anymore as papers & sources could be downloaded off somewhere..

Furthermore, general pace & audience increased and in order to keep up with the competition one had to get really organized. And for some ppl like me someone telling me what to do on my spare time is really a turn off thing :plain

Right, these were just bitter excuses. I would think that a lot of old sceners just got into situation where priorities in life are different... or just got enough of that era. And why was scene better in the old days? Just talk to your parents about their youth and learn that it's all just golden memories :D
 
..more coffee..

stu

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As Sheep said, or whoever, why not hardcode the PC cracktro to the game .exe. So then it would be like the old c64 days when you had to watch all three intros before the game started (which was usually freeze framed ;)

And someone can invent a EXE appender so any lamer can add their OSDM intro to the reloaded/deviance intro game exe file.

On top of that, we need more attutide in the scene, I guess it must become very mechanical at some point, week in, week out removing protections, so why not bag someone out in the .nfo file to spice it up a bit. Even if they dont deserve it ;)

At least when you read the XBOX/PS2 releases of Dagger, you can sit back and enjoy some mindless bullsheet, which to the average lamer, is quite enjoyable.

So come on PC Scene, dont just release your nfos with standard game info, put some bullshit in them, at least a joke to make us laugh :)
 

Gonthar

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Well, as a former "oldskool" member from WOW (C64) and The Band (Amiga), I can concur with a lot of what has been already said above. Seems that the "life" has gone out of the scene. In a way, it makes sense: no more nicks 'coz of the risk of getting caught. However, try to look for the name of The Band's cracker: well... you won't find it, because he didn't have any. Already then, we were concerned with (some) privacy.

There are also far less groups. Take today's scene (of which I am NO part), for instance the games iso scene. Besides Reloaded and Deviance (and recently Razor 1911), where is the other REAL competition ? There is none.

Personally, I also think that the latest "shake downs" (Vengeance, Hoodlum, Fairlight) have also scared people away from the scene. Let's face it: at the time of The Band, I was still a student. Nowadays, I have a respectable job and offspring :) People just put two and two together and realize that a hobby (the scene) isn't worth going to jail for.
 
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